in a sense, this is not a paul ryan and joe biden debate. this is a mitt romney and barack obama debate. they will make arguments about the two men who would lead the country for the next four years. paul ryan knows that. if he has done any specific substantive training for debate beyond what he knows it's on that. make sure that his views are the same and he is making the case on behalf of mitt romney. the most interesting thing we are likely to see tonight is a continuation of what we saw the democrats do to paul ripe at the convention. what we saw democrats do after the fact to romney. basically suggesting that everything that they are saying is untrue. and make paul ryan try to defend on that basis. >> bret: the whole thing about the vulnerability for paul ryan he is too wonky and he could get so into the weeds and numbers. we're hearing from republicans is really just junk, because they think that the more detailed he gets, on substance, the more people at home say that they like it. that is what they want to hear to refute rhetoric. >>